Victor Guadagnino Jr., Chief Business Development Officer, Keystone Canna Remedies

Thinking Outside The Bud - Victor Guadagnino

Victor Guadagnino Jr., Chief Business Development Officer, Keystone Canna Remedies

Victor obtained his B.S. in Biology at Siena College and Masters in Medical Bioethics at New York University. His focus through course work in his Master’s program was the examination of how to obtain true informed consent from patients in various circumstances: an approach he implemented on a daily basis working hand in hand with patients to help educate them not only about informed consent but their doctor’s directives as well. He completed his Medical Bioethics program with his Master’s thesis “How Technology Affects the Patient Physician Relationship.”

Victor’s education in Medical Bioethics makes him uniquely suited to address the policymaking and internal review challenges of the emerging medical marijuana industry to ensure the highest standard of care. Victor has worked closely with a team of content experts to learn MMJ strains, dosages and delivery systems with respect to various medical conditions. Victor also brings technical experience to the KCR team through his management of an API Certified Laboratory where he oversaw the handling and processing of patient specimen samples, ensuring quality control procedures were maintained.


[00:00:01] You're listening to Thinking Outside the Bud where we speak with entrepreneurs investors thought leaders researchers advocates and policymakers who are finding new and exciting ways for cannabis to positively impact business society and culture. And now here is your host Business Coach Bruce Eckfeldt.

[00:00:30] Welcome everyone this is thinking outside the bud. Respectful. I'm your host and our guest today is Victor Guadagnino and he is Co-founder of Keystone Canna Remedies and Keystone is the first dispensary in Pennsylvania. We're going to learn a little bit more about that and we're going to hear about his background at the company and what they're doing today. A good episode on the business of dispensaries. I'm looking forward to getting into it. Victor welcome to the program.

[00:00:55] Well thank you and thank you very much for having me.

[00:00:57] Yeah it's a pleasure. Why don't we start with the background. Let's get a sense of how did you get into this space. How did you get it to the cannabis space. And tell us a little bit about the beginnings the founding of the first dispensary.

[00:01:08] Pennsylvania health care has been a field that I've always been interested in and that my family has a business in. So I before I was doing this we were actually managing a health care cardiology practice in Brooklyn New York where my father was the cardiologist and internal medicine. He was a sole practitioner and then my aunt Joan who is also my co-founder was our health care manager for the practice. So we come from a health care background and cannabis was making its way across the country literally from California to the east coast Greenway. Right. So obviously it was a hot topic as we know. And New York had just introduced temporary regulations. We're from New York. We're from Brooklyn New York that's where the practice was and we took a real serious look at New York. It was actually my father's idea to get into cannabis. We had a good background for it in the way that the programs are set up. We look at merit based states. So at that point we were on a cannabis company we were a perfect acquisition company. Right. So that's how it's a good way to frame it for ourselves is what is our job right now is to put it together a awesome application build the team and demonstrate a capacity to operate. So those were the kind of the three things going into there. You know there's another important thing called funding. We would talk more about that.

[00:02:26] Yeah. So we were really long story short. We were looking at New York. We did pull out. We didn't actually put an application into New York because of how the market was. It was like that I mean limited number of licenses. Limited number of conditions a low amount of physician involvement. So and also you know with low amount of licenses vertically integrated it was very political. So not a good situation. Very happy that we didn't pursue that and we actually do have a residence here in Pennsylvania. We've been kind of splitting time for about twenty five years. We have a house in Bucks County which is you know but Northeast Pennsylvania. And then one of our other partners is actually from the Lehigh Valley where we opened our first location. So Pennsylvania comes up with the regulations very friendly. So Department of Health is doing an educational campaign. We were involved very early on. We had some input into regulations and the sort of introducing ourselves to local community leaders local health care leaders. We did real estate Scouting which was obviously an cannabis business. It's really a real estate business first. A large part of our success today was because of location that we found. So we focused in on Lehigh Valley and it was really kind of the community spoke for itself. We wanted to we always been saying that we didn't want to just set up shop and do business.

[00:03:41] We wanted to become part of the community. And we found that cannabis actually was not too much of a taboo subject in this area. But I think a large part of that was how we present it. We kind of take a middle line approach where we don't tell cannabis as a curative or cure all and we don't say it's the devil's Devil's lettuce right. So there is a lot in between to have this conversation and that's what we are good at is we present ourselves well professionally we're changing the paradigm or changing the language instead of high we see psycho activity is just a very basic example. Once you start answering what we got good at was our patient care from the practice and we were missing was cannabis expertise. So we recruited a pharmacist from Minnesota who had participated in like state's so we only look at states like Pennsylvania. So it looked like Vermont Connecticut merit based medical states which as you see these programs unfold we've seen them become more and more professional. And we were really happy with Pennsylvania. So we built the team we got the real estate and we put it together a very very good application that we wrote ourselves and we won the license and not only do one license we were the first approved to open in the state as a family owned and operated mom and pop shop.

[00:04:55] So when did you when did you actually start a business.

[00:04:58] It's a good question actually coming right around now. We were technically approved December 28 2017. Right. So we were out ahead by months from our competition.

[00:05:09] And it's funny because there are companies that are still trying to say that they were first and we're still realizing how important it was to be first that our brand identity got out there and especially that we beat a lot of big businesses.

[00:05:22] And this is inspiring but so December twenty eight was our technical are our first certification and then our official open our grand opening was January 17 but we opened without product and we did that intentionally. We opened for educational purposes where we had workshops for the community to introduce to law enforcement to introduce to business leaders medical leaders and potential patients. And we ran workshops for two weeks while on topics from vaporization one to one to cannabinoids and turbans so really try. We take a very strong educational approach and it all again is trying to shift that paradigm and change the conversation. So it's been a crazy ride so far since then. So when then we actually are first sale of product was February 16.

[00:06:08] Ok. So you're coming up on one year at this point. Yeah. Yeah. One year and one year on operations. So tell me a little bit more about sort of the team how did you how did you find the right people. What was the process for finding the right people. I mean you mentioned you know someone who actually knew the cannabis products themselves. But tell me a little bit about putting together that team because I think that's something a lot of a lot of groups struggle with.

[00:06:28] It was definitely a struggle I got I would say and not what I'm about to say it sounds fortuitous right to the team that we put together.

[00:06:34] It was almost that we looked at our strengths and we were fit perfectly into how Pennsylvania was unrolling the program but it was a long long road.

[00:06:42] I mean it almost fell apart. I would say completely fell apart three times. So it mostly is around real estate and funding. So I'm like it was a good day away from going OK I guess we're not doing this anymore. And every time we rallied or like someone just had a great idea or something broke and we continued on we kind of describe it that's like a roller coaster ride the whole way through.

[00:07:06] So we started really with just the core team. Me my and my father we like I said we were looking at it as a permit acquisition business at that side. So quite randomly an old childhood friend or an old acquaintance from my aunt my aunt was a the head recruiter for a Wall Street law firm. And she was one of the lawyers she recruited and one of her first career Pat Gregory she's one of our main partners now. She is a real estate lawyer. I have a masters in medical bioethics and what I focused on at the practice was patient education. My aunt Joan who is our CEO is a she has an MBA. Twenty five years experience in a nonprofit setting fund raising and awareness. Now my father is a cardiologist Internal Medicine solo practitioner which is a huge deal in Brooklyn New York. Well actually a huge deal anywhere now in health care systems as we see this alarming trend of paternalistic large health systems that you're losing this type of medicine. That's where his mentality is coming from he's really really at the core of what we do is patient care and patient education and that comes from the practice.

[00:08:15] So that's the core of the team and what we were trying to do for the application was show how in line our goals were with the program. And it was so we were fortunate in being able to craft an application to a program that really fit our business model. And I think that's really a I would say a large part of how we started building ourselves. And then as we got going we learn fast. We all say we made the mistake of paying for our consultant early on. We shot them pretty quick. I mean they taught us a little too much. That was even before we put in our application. But we did so that was just kind of us acquainting ourselves with this industry. And then you hear it all the time and it's not much different than anything else. It's really not you know I mean except for some tax codes which are incredibly cumbersome. Yeah it's it's a startup business in a startup industry. So exactly. I guess that is the difference but you're not capturing Mark market share you're creating the market and then create market share and we actually I was able to see this from the beginning.

[00:09:16] I mean we went from zero to right now we have over 4000 unique patients now inside a year. So it's amazing like the brain now. There's I think one hundred thousand patients statewide in Pennsylvania. Large part of that is because a large condition less physician involvement and DOJ awareness campaign. Right. And then we got in early made good relationships with physicians good relationships with community leaders. And I think in the Lehigh Valley I can confidently say that physicians are only really comfortable referring patients to us.

[00:09:44] Yeah.

[00:09:44] So to have that without being able to have a true Referral Network which we're not allowed to have we can't refer patients to position or potential patients to physicians positions really connect us but they could recommend that you know they really trust those guys over there and that's what we tried from the beginning is we got out ahead of them. We put medical professionals in it in front of them and we had the conversation of what is medical marijuana how to use it as medicine. How does it interact with the body and what is your goals of therapy. Right. So you can answer those questions. It starts to become it's not magic anymore right. They become more comfortable with you especially the medical community. And I think that's something that we have an eye towards now is we are very patient focused but we also want to make a kind of a parlay into the wellness mark and that would be art. And I mean that would be our transition into an adult use market. It's a way from the idea of a truly wreck. Right. You know. And that's something you know we had to learn on the fly is that's not really what we're going to do. Even an adult first walks there's a ton of questions to answer if you have reciprocity know reciprocity of your license when is it happening. You know I'm pretty confident to say that I.

[00:10:53] In other states. We will have reciprocity into an adult use market.

[00:10:57] But we still want to maintain our patient base like this is why would we really like it. And actually seeing patients interact and you can't you can't deny it right in any legal market there are recreational patients.

[00:11:09] I'm using air quotes for those listening here. He's got his fingers up and they're going up and down.

[00:11:17] They're recreational patients.

[00:11:18] I don't I hesitate to say that because I do think that people are using this substance in a additional fashion or they're using it successfully fashion or if they're not they may be abusing it but they start using it in a more respectful or a more functional way. So that's what's been inspiring to me is that I knew we would have both this helps patients and why had a good piece of advice when we first started as you need to be good at but right to be able to talk to the stoner at the counter and you need to be able to comfort that end of life cancer patient and perfectly. I think that's what we're good at. And to me that's what I just keep reminding myself all the way through. And it's not one it's not. Yeah it's not just to use that language stoner at the counter. I do see patients who've been using cannabis for 20 years and maybe abusing it and now that they're talk about it out in the open and they can actually use products that they know what they are they're using it more functionally they're using it as a wellness substitute. So we bring him in and bring him part of the community that's what it's about. And that's really what I'm trying to say is even in the fully legalized market I think we do exactly what we're doing.

[00:12:28] Yeah. So let's pick up in two seconds so people understand because I'm not sure everyone appreciates exactly how this process works. It varies a little bit state by state but give us a sense of how an individual how a patient goes about getting cannabis in a medical only state. Because I think that's it's important people understand. Like where does a patient start and how does the process work.

[00:12:49] Right now in a medical state you would have to have a qualifying condition a qualifying condition would be listed by the Department of Health the Department of Health is usually the governing body of a medical marijuana program. Got it.

[00:13:01] Our programs are instituted very strictly because it's federally illegal and it's our protection against the federal government to have strict regulations. So a medical patient would in Pennsylvania at least in how it does very similarly United States would register with the Department of Health. Really what you're doing there is verifying that you are a a resident of the state. You do that. You can you're in a database and physicians are also certified and put it in a database. So.

[00:13:29] So I can't I have to go to a physician that has been licensed to it's not prescribing I'm licensed to certify and recommend some sort of argument.

[00:13:38] Yeah. How we like to see it done is that a physician is certifying or a testing that you have the medical conditions that would qualify you for cannabis. Got it right. They do also allow physicians to make cannabis dosing recommendations. I'm not quite a fan of that. Because early on they don't know enough about cannabis. And even if they did they do not know what products are available. But that's a side note.

[00:14:02] Yeah but I think it's an important side note because I think that's I think for a lot of you know for consumers patients it's still a little unclear on how this works so I would I would first do it do I first register myself or do I first find a physician who is register online.

[00:14:15] Right. You read from the Department of Health then online there's also a list of those positions. You call this physicians you set up an appointment in that appointment. They do a certification which is an online document that they do that they are submitting to the Department of Health and then the Department of Health is approving those it's approve or deny. But if it's a physician's recommendation they will never do. I've never heard of them denying you can't check. I don't really think they can as long as the physician is attesting to it. So the certification still doubt you pay a 50 dollar fee to the Department of Health. And they mail you a medical marijuana I.D. card that would have the same picture as your photo I.D. that you're registered with at the beginning. Right. So once you have that card in hand then you can visit a dispensary and be dispensing medical marijuana anywhere in the state like this.

[00:14:57] We're now talking within the state boundaries. I can go to any state authorized dispensary and procure something. Now what happens when I actually go into the dispensary. What is that experience like.

[00:15:07] So Pennsylvania does require a pharmacist to be onsite or a medical professional so a pharmacist has to be onsite at your main location. And then to satellite locations with your licensure. That's open three. So our main location has to have a pharmacist and our two satellite locations have to have either a nurse practitioner or EPA a physician's assistant. So the reason I say that though is because certain dispensaries use their pharmacists a medical fashions different ways we use them functionally. We require consoles and we also make sure that our pharmacists can operate and manage a location because it is cost to have a medical professional on the premises you're required to have it. So that's one thing that's baked in but we also want to use that. So we do require patients to go through initial consoles. And really that's an onboarding process so that we can get to know the patient and what their goals of therapy are. Otherwise you don't need to do that right. So other dispensaries may not require you to do that. You could potentially just have a cannabis card go to a dispensary and buy cannabis. I'm particularly a fan of that especially the medical marijuana program. I'll take a step back there and I do understand that there are patients who know what they're doing.

[00:16:11] I don't want to. I do not want to discourage choice. I want you to have choice. That is the beauty of this medicine is the beauty of this industry is that it always comes down. You have such variation and control what you're consuming. So that to us we're just helping you make better choices based on what you want. So that and that will start the initial console and people do actually appreciate it afterwards but it is about getting there sometimes. And I really do get it. I appreciate it because it's an added step to you being able to have access to your medication that a lot of the people in an early market early adopters have been fighting for for a very very long time. You know we're still in the first hundred thousand people. We got hundred thousand people to go who are cannabis warriors and doctors. They're the advocates brought this here. So very passionate like our first sale. They cheered like our first sale he has his bag up in the air there's a picture of it there's a better care and the love he is applauding. And it was a big deal. You know we're going to get excited about medicine like that. Yeah.

[00:17:13] You know that's the truth. Yeah. And I think it's important for listeners to kind of appreciate that the the way this is kind of playing out in terms of the customer experience because I think that is still an area that's undergoing huge innovation which is what is this experience like in the dispensary. And this kind of consultative approach versus you know customer driven and I just go in and I select off a touchscreen menu and it shows up in a bag minute. This is I think this is key to understand as the market develops and as the type of customers that we have coming to dispensaries you know as that changes and becomes more varied and we move from the sort of the cannabis friendly you know the pot culture people they've been using cannabis already to people that have potentially coming out of a mindset of you know cannabis as the devil's lettuce. But now are starting to think about maybe not like how like the experience that they have is going to be quite different. And I like the idea that well you know you've got this big strategic advantage of being the first the market here that really focusing on this customer experience as being kind of a strategy for you from a dispensary point of view I think is a good one. I think that that's an area that innovation and getting that right and developing a good experience will will help strategically. I guess what else have you found in terms of the as you think through the customer experience or you kind of think through the different types of customers that you're serving however you kind of design the experience or design the process to meet those different needs and kind of qualified people and make sure that experience is positive for them.

[00:18:34] I would love for you to come here and just experience the patient experience from start to finish but really what because everything you just said is what we're trying to tailor a patient's experience around. And I think the best ways to say it. And what I think we figured out so far is to put it simply is education on two different levels three different levels one on a higher level.

[00:18:57] That's what the workshops its general public education through educational videos. And we have two in the pipeline that actually hit right on what you're saying.

[00:19:06] Second is that education and I think that's the biggest thing in this industry right now is being able to educate your staff and your your product specialists or your bartenders whatever you want to call them on how to interact with patients or how to interact with consumers and how to direct them and be a resource for them in making efficient effective and safe products elections. And we could really get into that and then patient education. So those three public education step education patient or consumer education at the counter what is happening at the time of transaction. And that's why we start with that initial console and that's what I say it's an onboarding process. So what's the onboarding process is how do you use Candace before does you know what you got did you like it. Did it have the alleviation of your symptoms did you have desired effect when did you use it. The key is in what it was it was a two strong. Was it uplifting was it sedating. So basically having these conversations gauging patient base over the last year what we've found out is that the best way you can frame it or the best selection you can make comes into three categories. One is format or modality. So do you want to inhale or do you want to ingest mainly. Right. There are other formats there's top creams and whatnot ratio of THC and CBD OK. Then spectrum of effect. So you have format ratio and spectrum so spectrum is the biggest strain identity and that's how we kind of frame and then it's understanding the plant or the product. Basically a lot of consumers patients they don't necessarily want to.

[00:20:36] And I run into this right because I can just punch into a hole kick out on the strands and they will think OK I just wanna know it's good information overload. Help me that. Just just give me just pause and go just give. All right. So that's.

[00:20:52] That's another important part as you need to read your consumer. You read your patients some of really want to know what some of them just want to get on with their day and pick up their product. So you need to know your audience.

[00:21:01] I'm still working on that. So that's what it is like. It's it's telling that it's even telling them that. Is that really what we're trying to do is establish a framework and a ladder or a latest that patients can go like that. Yeah. So it's two different approaches it's either a sandbox approach or a direct recommendation. Right. So a lot of patients fall into the sandbox approaches. I'm just going to make sure that I set up parameters for you such as a starting area an escalation. Hold right. I'm going to set parameters. I'm going to give you the interval of which you should change. Right. So if it's a tincture I'm going to tell you to alter by point to five amounts up and down titrate up and down. What are you looking for. How you Ty treating effect. So give them back. Give them factors on. What are you. I'm giving you all the secret. What then. Really what you need to make sure you're doing is when you're asking a patient for feedback. Give them examples of what type of feedback you're looking for because it confuses them otherwise. So like what I'm what am I asking you to do. Are you having alleviation of your symptoms or are you experiencing psycho activity. What we're trying to do is find a sweet spot between both adults those right. And I can only do that if you give me feedback. So with a tincture we like starting with tinctures it's easier to find your dose large.

[00:22:16] What we're trying to do is find your dose.

[00:22:18] We're going to help you find your dose we're going to reinvigorate you back into your health care if you're back in the driver's seat and on on a bigger scale. We're going to it's self empowerment it's getting. It's making you present it's and cannabis is amazing at doing that it's cannabis as a catalyst into launching you into being more present into your own life. Right. So what we're seeing is patients are eating better. They're moving better they're sleeping better. I want to start doing something with that and then it's patients it's consumers it's wellness and that's what I think we're going to start doing maybe not 2019.

[00:22:49] I think we're starting in 19 but she has 20 is going to be more of that year is how we're going to differentiate ourselves our differentiation is patient experience tailoring a custom experience based on your desired effect based on cannabinoid profile and torpedoes.

[00:23:05] So different screen identities have different you know your meme additional drivers are CBD and THC of anti inflammatory effect mood modulation effect of THC and neurological properties of CBD you sprinkle Turpin on top to get those my nude effects of energizing and focusing I see my new because CBD THC are your main driver it's like herpes are those or those special like they they're responsible for chemical profile they're sparse there's that energizing effect there's they're responsible for that mellowing effect right in conjunction with your cannabinoids I'm talk about those mainly with patients don't see other cannabinoids in appreciable amounts yet I'd like to explore would be like CBN THC the CBN for sleep promoting sleep eight THC D for actually appetite suppression so there's a lot to explore here right. So what. One thing that we're working on now is trying to identify Turkey profile because I think strains are a great way to educate people you know biodiesel and you her air they're good but I think strains aren't going anywhere. First of all I don't think I think they'll be around but I also want to be more educated in the fact that all the strain is is a particular combination of cannabinoids and Turpin tactic that had a recorded effect right. That's what a user reported effect and that's what we're doing. So another thing that we're gonna do is start to formalize this. So what I have myself doing is they're always looking at Turpin profiles. They're trying to match up you know this presence of a Turpin and a lack of this Turpin mix that this potency or this ratio can have a particular effect. All right we're we're guessing that right now let's our patient base. Now let's hear that from 20 people. Let's hear that from one hundred people. Then I can start saying it to other people. Right.

[00:24:45] It is like customized medicine. I mean you're talking about basically you know coming up with the kind of the parameters or the variables the levers you can pull and push on this stuff and saying OK now I can take new patient you know why and you know look at the symptoms and the desired effect and say All right well based on other patients that we have that have tried these things here's a profile that we think that's gonna work best for you.

[00:25:04] And I would say I don't think we're not the only people doing this obviously. But we want to start formalizing this we want to start quantifying it. We want to start quantifying the patient experience exactly that and then start making our datasets randomized in aggregate obviously start making data sets based on patient surveys available to academic institutions to start furthering the field of research. But I just you know I like doing all that but I also enjoy this is almost counter-intuitive to almost everything.

[00:25:31] I enjoy the magic around it to where someone finds that strange that that particular chemical profile that just resonates very well with them. And they can have a paradox paradoxical reaction to it. It could have been push O.G. Kush I hear it all the time. Oh gee cuz you're suppose to be an indica it is like it is the working horse of cannabis genetics I know people who come they inhale and they are active all day long. So every different stream can potentially resonate differently with a different patient.

[00:25:59] So that is very much user generated user driven and user reported. I liked it.

[00:26:04] Yeah I mean I think that mindset works well you know in terms of the dispensary. Dispensaries role in the process which is it is you know there's a bit of an exploration process around it and you need to start with some knowledge and start with some kind of assessment and some consulting and sort of advisory but then you need that feedback process to say OK well what was the effect what worked what didn't and where do we go from there. And having kind of a knowledgeable partner in this process seems like a great sort of role for the dispensaries to play on this. Let me ask a little bit about product development. Talking about the strands you're talking about the toppings. Where do you see kind of the product innovation going. I guess how do you get your product right now and how does the availability of different product limit your ability to do the work that you want to do.

[00:26:45] It's not only getting other medical marijuana state we can only source from in the state. There are there were 12 grower processor permits awarded in phase one of the medical marijuana program in Pennsylvania. There are currently nine operating and we purchase from all nine of them. We really try not to purchase from a grower without inspecting their facility. We're able to inspect about half of them right now. Other half that we haven't inspected or major growers. I don't really care though. I mean I still want to go see that facility.

[00:27:14] But we will eventually see all of them.

[00:27:17] When Pennsylvania first started flower was not allowed and we started seeing a lot of innovation in concentrate market so the cartridge is and particularly by resin concentrates so resin is not dried or cured its flesh frozen and then the attraction from there or they either usually hydrocarbon extraction is pretty high resin is going to maintain better Turpin profile better flavor better strain identity really what we're seeing in a trend is trying to get extractions and oils closer to yeah. That's really kind of what we've seen is turbid obviously Turpin profile turkeys are all over the place.

[00:27:52] A lot of growers are just their tip farmers which makes sense right. But really what we're seeing is trying to get distractions to emulate the plant as best it can in that market.

[00:28:02] I see a huge and I think this caught a lot of people off guard. CBD low THC CBD ratio products I think is the future of cannabis. Hands down in a fully legalized market. I think it's better than hemp oil I think it's better than pure CBD low dose THC like a 2 to 1 ratio is probably was a reason why I say this is there's growers who come from other states who do not put much importance in CBD products and then they hit it and and this is my guess because of that oil right.

[00:28:33] And because of the national distribution of it because of Hayley's hope and Mitchell's medicinal and those like the three main hemp oils that have been around and well well bedded I guess doesn't really recommend a source that just generated hype around CBD and cannabis directly is better than hemp drive CBD and especially and really really the true medicinal benefit of the plant comes shines when it's the ratio of THC insanity the scream entourage that yeah.

[00:29:07] So when I say I think more ratio products more exploration of actual other cannabinoids intervenes. So that's what I've seen recently this year. Where are we going device wise instead of better delivery mechanisms and cartridges are always getting better.

[00:29:21] We're starting to see pods a lot more pods are the square types of cartridges packs packs pods and odds and Jupiter darts are kind of three new products that are what I mean by better I mean better vapor production smoother and you can meet your dose right.

[00:29:37] So these better things and it just happened so quickly so I think I need to remind myself of how far out ahead we are you know and we really are. But then there are other people doing it so I'm always encouraged when I don't see people doing this.

[00:29:53] That's a good sign. Like hey no one's doing that yet. No I get it because there's been a pleasure. We're gonna hit time here in a minute if people want to find out more about you about Keystone. What's the best way to get information and get more get more details.

[00:30:05] We are pretty active on social media and then also our website is our best resource. It's and you can find us on Facebook or Instagram. We try to communicate and just get the message out there of how to use cannabis as a medicine.

[00:30:20] Awesome. I'll make sure that those links are in the shut out so people can click through and I will take you up on your offer. I will come down and visit I'll find some time next. Well you do next couple weeks will do it. Yeah Victor it's been great. Thank you for taking the time. It's been a pleasure. I learned a lot. Hopefully our listeners learned a lot as well. All right thank you very much.

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